The Avengers Assembled in 1602?

Hello and welcome, fellow Marvel fans, to the

Snark Industries podcast. I'm John. And I'm Remy.

And we invite you to join us as we work our way

through every Marvel TV show, movie, and crossover.

Meaning if there's a Marvel character on screen,

it's fair game. All categorized in the temporal

order of their setting. By the time we're done,

we'll have built a complete start -to -finish

timeline of the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe.

To accomplish this goal and to have a bit of

fun along the way, each episode will be split

into two parts, a watch party and a deep dive.

If you're hearing this, you found one of our

watch parties. This is where we sit down with

you and experience a piece of Marvel media together

in real time, celebrating the high points and

poking fun at the low ends, because that's what

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and wait for the three -tone countdown. On the

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be watching together. Quick note, if your version

includes ads, you'll need to pause us during

those breaks to stay in sync. Once you finish

watching along, we encourage everyone to check

out the deep dive as well, where we will do an

in -depth analysis of the information we just

consumed. Most importantly, we want to thank

each and every one of you for joining us on this

incredible journey. We're not affiliated with

Marvel in any way, shape, or form. We're just

fans who are passionate about these stories and

these characters and wish to share them with

everyone in a new and exciting way. So, sit back,

relax, and enjoy this episode of Stark Industries.

We get a little tune in the front. Yeah, that

kind of flute music. Little pipes. Oh, this is

the Shakespeare episode. Hamlet. Oh, yeah, this

is the what if the Avengers formed in 1602? Well.

I would imagine they'd really steamroll everybody.

Uh, it can't be good. Oh, that guy's gone. Oh,

maybe not. Got Captain Carter. That's not the

Cap I expected that to be when she said, Cap,

you're up. Cap Carter is the official captain

of the What If series. Really? Did you not watch

any of them? Not many. Oh, man. The first season

was actually pretty solid. It had an overarching

story and everything. If it was America, that

wouldn't happen. I'm sure. Britain always taking

those L's. Man, everyone just bends the knee.

Okay, interesting. Right. What? Okay. I almost

said that. God damn it. I guess you could have

the hotline. So what if the Avengers was founded

in 1602? They would just turn on each other?

So. My issue with this, this one in particular

is what if is always based on off of like a single

hinging event. This is hinging on like everyone

existing back then. And it just, it's weird.

I don't know. This is how I, how you feel about

the rest of the what if series. It is safe. Now

you're feeling, you're really starting to feel

what I'm feeling here. Yes. Feel the anger. Everyone

joined me in thinking these are strange. Oh,

they are. They're very strange. I mean, that's

kind of the point, right? I suppose. I am the

Watcher. Hear me roar. That's a cool shot. All

right. She's always doing something. Right. Of

all the people she could have brought to help

them. Right. No offense to Captain Carter. Damn,

he's tall. Well, he's not got a lot of gravity

weight in them living on the moon and such. Fair

enough. His spinal cord is elongated from that.

It scientifically checks out. Best not to look

into it. the band himself that's right that's

a voice you cannot replicate you can't you can't

deny it Oh, whoa, watch your mouth. Language.

They're looking forward. She's just right there.

Right. No one sees her. That's why she hid on

Fury's left side. Right. Hmm. I don't think that's

Robert Downey Jr. Ant -Man. I just... Yeah. Who

else? Right? Loki. Ah. Let's see who we got.

Is that Cap? Yep. Roger's hood. That's pretty

dumb, man. Oh, they got cakes in that basket.

That's awesome. So she did exist here and they

went and got another one. Yeah. Spare piggy.

And then they got run over by horses. Now they're

going to. This episode also has some butt touching.

That's Sherwood Forest's ass. Sherwood's for

it. Stupid. Oh, man. He's got a Florida lease

on his shoulder. Yes, he does. Big fan of the

Saints. They go marching in. He's a scrawny little

fool. Why is this Steve Rogers all beefy? He

didn't get no serum. He took a very big piece

of bread. I'm sure that was exactly what it was.

Yellow jackets. That's pretty great. A ton of

them. Well, I got some bad news for you about

how gunpowder works. All those little guys would

be dead. No, no, no, they wouldn't. That's not

how airman works. That thing just doesn't follow

physics at all. No, never does. Never does. I

love the voice. That was good. That's great.

Oh, man. And where'd the Pym Tech come from?

Listen, what if? I'm just trying to figure out.

I mean, you need some rules still. What if none

of this made sense? That's the name of this episode.

He just went a little purple. I thought he was

about to Hulk out there for a minute. I think

he might. I know I watched this episode, but

I'm not remembering it at all. Oh, that's cool.

That's the Destroyer. It'd be pretty funny if

Happy Hogan became a Hulk. Hulk Hogan. Oh, man.

I'm going to boo you. I don't even feel bad about

it. Everyone, we get one per episode. I'm good

with that. I really like that design for a old

time. You destroy your armor. Yeah, that's sick.

I like that a lot. Can never whistle like that.

Yeah, I just spit all over everything. Yeah.

Oh, shit. He keeps going purple. I don't remember

anything about him going purple. He's going to

turn into Grimace for McDonald's. Oh, dude, that'd

be awesome. What if the destroyer aimed a little

further down? Right. She would be legless. Captain

No Legs. Oh, that's cool. Skull is the executioner.

That's pretty great. But his arm gets tired of

holding like that all the time. Right. Stop saying

the name of your show, man. They really got to

get the plugs in. They're really getting it in

there this time. Does help. Oh, we got a hallway

fight. That's right. A staple. Mm -hmm. Ah, there

he is. Mm -hmm. No, that's that's Tony's old

mask. That's the Mark one armor. Yeah. Whoops.

Oh. That's not what he said. The subtitle said

something different. They're doing the best they

can. Yeah, apparently. Some poor subtitle or

somewhere. He's listening to this like, man,

I tried. I'm so glad that in all the iterations,

Hulk pants just decide that they don't want to

rip off with the rest of his clothes. It really

changed. Stretchy pants. How will y 'all look

at him? The Ed Norton Hulk where he gets the

purple pants and he holds it up and it's all

stretchy and hilarious. It was a funny joke.

Stretchy. Stretchy. So what? It's Hogan, right?

Steve, my hero. It's borderline criminal to not

have Robin Hood be Hawkeye. Right? That was my

expectation as well. He's not even here. Yeah.

Nope. Time for another rift. Go Wanda, go Wanda,

go, go. Sometimes you just got to shoot magic

into another magic and hope that something magical

happens. Must have been a ton of fun for Favreau

to do the English accent and everything. The

old English. Oh, dude, I like his his home, too.

Yeah, that is cool. Make a hole. What kind of

lowly guard is going to go and face a Hulk? Right?

It's weird that when they do it modern day, but

at least they have guns and stuff. These are

just guys with swords. Swords, yeah. Not going

to do a damn thing against the Hulk. No, I'm

just going to go home. He's been trying to protect

that feather this whole time. Well, he did indeed

go purple. What the hell? Man, I must have fallen

asleep during this episode or something. remember

any of this. Well, I'm equally as confused and

this is my first time, so any of the case. You

know, if we've learned anything lately, they

don't like giving away their stuff. That would

have surprised me. Pretty soon you're going to

have Ol' Condon in your mix trying to take it

back. Yeah. Huh. Jesus. Okay. That was a line.

That was something else. Blah. Should have said

hashtag first. I mean, with that. The. Yeah.

What is this garbage? What is this purple nonsense?

Why is Hogan all of a sudden this purple monstrosity?

Did I miss something? What if? See how that works?

The beauty of it is that it hinges on one thing,

though. The one thing here is what if we made

up everything? I just don't understand. Why didn't

they just get Blonsky? He could have been the.

Yeah, I don't know. Could have gotten Abomination

to do this fight. Would have been great. And

made some sense. We're not here to make sense.

We're here to ask, what if? The pipes are calling.

Oh, there it is. Hit him with a treason. He's

playing double duty now. Gonna get some hex tech

up in here. I'm gonna start using that one. In

what world could Thor beat Wanda? This guy. I

don't like anything about this guy. Well, if

it makes you feel any better, he doesn't like

you either. I'm okay with that. Dude, that is

like Hextech. I was just kidding. All right.

Oh, it's Cap. Yeah, and you tried to kill it,

fool. Blast him. So anyways, I started blasting.

Oh, can't help but laugh out loud. It's so bad.

I don't like him. Why they didn't use Blonsky

is so far beyond me. He pressed her right on

the button. Yeah. Well, you did it. Uh -huh.

Whatever it is. Oh, it's him again. Uh -huh,

uh -huh. Sense and a theme. Dun, dun, dun! All

right. Please don't. I mean, yeah. All right,

folks, we will see you over in the deep dive

for this episode. It's going to be a fun one.

I have a feeling. Thank you for joining us in

this episode of the Snark Industries podcast.

To join the conversation and further explore

the Marvel Cinematic Universe with us, head on

over to snarkindustriespod .com. The link will

be in the show notes. But with that, we will

see you in the next adventure.

Hello and welcome, fellow Marvel fans, to the

Snark Industries podcast. I'm John. And I'm Remy.

And we invite you to join us as we work our way

through every Marvel TV show, movie, and crossover.

Meaning if there's a Marvel character on screen,

it's fair game. All categorized in the temporal

order of their setting. By the time we're done,

we'll have built a complete start -to -finish

timeline of the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe.

To accomplish this goal and to have a bit of

fun along the way, each episode will be split

into two parts, a watch party and a deep dive.

If you're hearing this, you found one of our

deep dives. This is where we slow things down

and take a more pragmatic, in -depth look at

a piece of Marvel media. We'll walk through the

full plot, explore connections to the wider MCU

and Marvel comics, highlight Easter eggs, unpack

lore, and of course, give you our own personal

thoughts and feelings. Although this episode

stands on its own, it is designed to complement

the watch party. So, if you haven't watched along

with us yet, we highly recommend starting there

first and coming back here for the full breakdown.

Most importantly, we want to thank each and every

one of you for joining us on this incredible

journey. We're not affiliated with Marvel in

any way, shape, or form. We're just fans who

are passionate about these stories and these

characters and wish to share them with everyone

in a new and exciting way. So, sit back, relax,

and enjoy this episode of Stark Industries. Hello,

ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Deep

Dive 4 episode. What if the Avengers assembled

in 1602? John, you want to give us that synopsis?

I do. Begrudgingly. This has got to be one of

the most confusing bits of Marvel entertainment

that I've ever consumed. So I'll try to walk

us through it. and everything but i don't know

how well i even understood it so by all means

if anyone else listening has some better clarity

on what we're talking about here feel free to

correct us because this was a doozy so we start

out and we see uh loki performing a little bit

of hamlet in front of queen hella and thor and

a few others and this rift opens in the sky And

it seems like this is some sort of big event

that these people living back in the 1600s were

having to deal with. Captain Carter is also there,

which tries to save Hela as she is being sucked

up into this vortex and is unable to do so. And

upon her being gone, I suppose that the rule

of the crown goes to her brother Thor, and his

first act as king is to then imprison Captain

Carter. who is not fulfilling her role because

it turns out she was summoned to this land from

another land that was also old timey, but not

really fitting because she's the only one that

could help. So the Avengers of this land were

able to open a portal to a different land via

the Scarlet Witch. And it's not really clear

how she was meant to help, but the Scarlet Witch

believes that Captain Carter is going to be there.

of getting out of this rift mess. Well, I mean,

who could have gotten Steve involved as well

as her? Fair enough. Fair enough. So we cut to

the prison and she has this discussion with Uatu

about how this world was meant to die. She should

just let it. She, you know, does what heroes

do and says, no, I'm going to help this place

and breaks out of prison. frees the hulk who

is also there and together they make their way

toward the throne room it appears not before

stopping along the way and consulting tony who

is building some sort of device to help them

ultimately find what they call the forerunner

which is whoever is responsible for all this

rift stuff in the first place it's not clear

who it is but Tony is able to build a device

that he says will help. Now, all the main characters

find themselves at the throne room. A fight ensues

between, ultimately, Thor, the Scarlet Witch,

and his royal guard. And then, ultimately, who

is our group of heroes? We've got Captain America.

We've got Captain Carter. We've got Ant -Man.

I believe Bucky was there. The Hulk was there.

Tony was there. We have a very cool action scene.

where they're having this fight, and ultimately

they're able to take the scepter. Wanda sort

of shows that she is kind of playing double agent

here as one of these rifts opens up above the

throne room itself and tries to help them complete

Tony's device by taking the scepter that Thor

was using and placing the jewel from it into...

this device that tony made which turns into a

gauntlet which fires ultimately what is the equivalent

of repulsor blast but it seems to be some sort

of hex technology she takes it or captain carter

puts it on her hand fires it at thor which doesn't

seem to do anything to thor but instead illuminates

captain america steve in this green shimmering

light revealing that he is in fact the forerunner

and he has gotten there from the main universe

by clicking the time stone with his shield while

he's fighting Thanos in Wakanda. And they have

a tender moment where they don't want to lose

each other again as in both of their worlds,

they had lost each other in some way, but ultimately

Steve walks up and just touches the button of

the gym that was in placed in this as a power

source to this Tony head instead of touching

butts, he's touching buttons and everyone in

the room, seems to disappear with the exception

of Captain Carter, who still remains. And then

we have the ending scene where she's talking

to Iwatu again, saying, are you here to gloat

that I'm stuck here forever because she saved

a world that was ultimately meant to be dying?

And to cap things off, very similar to our last

episode, Strange Supreme shows up attempting

to recruit yet another. So whatever this is building

to, I assume some future project. We now have

Kahori and Captain Carter tied into whatever

this Strange Supreme is. Strange is building

a team. Building a team for something. But I

suppose we'll get there. Yep. How this ties into

the MCU in general. Man, I don't even know if

I have the energy to talk about how it does it

and how it shouldn't. This episode, you know,

as I've... Clearly stated before and will continue

to state, what if is not my favorite because

it's so ridiculous. This one really took the

cake for me. It doesn't, the tie -ins, I mean,

I guess the only tie -in we have at all is all

of this sort of hinging off of Steve clicking

the time stone when he was fighting with Thanos.

Right. But even then, how did all these other

people get, none of it made sense. It doesn't

tie in. I don't want it to tie in. Are we also

to believe that vibranium can damage a time stone?

I don't know what I want to believe. I don't.

None of it makes sense. I don't want to take

anything from this episode. I'm good. I don't.

The continuity here doesn't follow. It doesn't

track. It was an interesting episode that had

some cool, you know, 1600 vibes. You know, we'll

get to that a little bit more when we get to,

to, you know, what we like kind of portion of

the show, but sure. In terms of how it ties in,

it just doesn't, it shouldn't. And it doesn't.

That being said, I'll kick it over to you to

talk about the same sort of thing with comic

books outside of the screen. Yeah, yeah. So for

comic book tie ins here, there aren't a lot.

It is, as John said, a what if episode that has

very little impact on the greater Marvel Universe.

However, there was of note a Neil Gaiman storyline

called Marvel 1602 that was published in 2003.

Comparing it to that, there are certainly some

parallels, but what if took its liberties all

over the place? So even using that as a basis,

there's not a whole ton to actually tie it to

as far as true comic source goes. There are certainly

parallels, like I said, but not that substantial.

But Easter eggs, now that there were a lot of

there were quite a few things that I caught and

quite a few things that I researched. One of

them was. that uh peggy says we never get our

happy ending uh right before steve disappears

which is you know how many times have we seen

peggy and steve not get that happy ending this

is the third time i think even with uh within

what if and uh we've got of course strange supreme's

arrival which as we said probably building up

to something but i also wanted to point out the

Iron Man Mach 1 mask. I know I mentioned it in

the watch party. I love that the Hulk was wearing

that as the man in the iron mask in the cell.

That was just so many literary references and

everything. Just fantastic. That one was good.

And I loved that Loki's portrayal of a Shakespearean

actor was. In this, because if you remember,

I think it was Ragnarok where Matt Damon is playing.

Yes. Loki. Yes. And it all just kind of kind

of meshes together. That was cool. That part

was fun. I really enjoyed that. But so why don't

you go ahead and just lay it on thick? What do

you think? So I think that it's very clear to

anyone who's been listening for this entirety

of this deep dive. I did not like this. It was

strange. It did not follow. The what if scenario

didn't didn't make sense because obviously it

pivoted on Steve hitting the time zone. How did

everyone else get there? You know, why is why

is hell of the king? Where did the Pym Tech come

from? The queen. You know what? You know what?

Yeah. Where did the Pym Tech come from? Why is

Happy Hogan a big purple monster? What is that?

You know, that's my biggest problem. There's

so many there's so many layers to it. You know,

and I suppose if you're making Steve the forerunner,

maybe it makes sense that you would have Peggy

be, you know, his antithesis to be able to fix

things. But also, if the Scarlet Witch is summoning

anyone from any timeline to come and help, you

know, I said at the watch party, no offense to

Catherine Carter, but anybody else probably would

have been better suited in terms of power scaling.

But ultimately, that's not what they were going

for, which maybe was the point. I think that

this is an episode that if you took what it does

and removed the parts of it that we're familiar

with, it might have been entertaining. There

were some parts that I liked. I liked the destroyer

armor. I liked, you know, seeing some of these

characters, you know, Red Skull as the executioner

was really neat. That was cool. Seeing these

different. you know, these different sort of

artistic representations of characters that we

all, you know, said we're familiar with being

a certain way and seeing them in this sort of

almost fantasy setting, I thought was very cool.

Ultimately, I think if you took the story that

they told and replaced everyone with people you

didn't really know, it might be serviceable.

It's still pretty loose with plot, honestly.

Still clicking, yeah. But, you know, maybe then,

but when you've got characters that have certain...

paths in life and and you know things that you

would expect for them and then everything is

just so strangely weird you know when you've

got i mean even so much as when you've got hella

and loki and thor having a you know a happy family

unit it seemed like yeah you know to the point

where you know when she's the you know when hella's

the queen and she and she gets sucked into this

portal that you know Thor is ready to defend

her to no end kind of thing. These parts of these

characters, it's just to go so far off script

for seemingly no reason. Minus the fact that

Happy is a big purple monster, why is he aligned

with Thor against ultimately who are considered

the heroes here? You know, Tony, his best friend,

his best Tony, his best friend. Yeah. None of

it makes sense. I just, you know, no, I I did

not like this episode. I don't have anything

good things to say about it. You don't say, you

know, I just I'll pick it up from here. Yeah.

By all means, please take this from me before

I spiral. I also didn't care for this episode.

It was. Of what we've watched so far, this is

the lowest of the rung. I don't understand why

Hogan was a purple beast, why they didn't use

Blonsky to to bring the abomination if they were

already bringing all these characters. And why

the hell not? That's that's an excellent and

makes a little bit more sense for him turning

into this monster. Why Hawkeye wasn't Robin Hood.

What is that? I mean, come on. Scratching an

infinity stone with vibranium. I don't buy it.

I do so many things. I didn't love it. I'm with

you. That being said. Like you mentioned, the

costume design and the reimagination of some

of these characters was really cool. Visually,

it was really, really neat to see. I really enjoyed

that. But all in all, I think this is, let's

call it a subpar episode. Yeah, I like that.

I like that. Subpar. Leaves some to be desired.

Yeah, just a bit. Just a bit. But hey, at the

end of the day, for sake of continuity. Maybe

worth a watch if you're going through the What

If series or following along with us. You know,

you can make fun of it. It wasn't all bad. It

just didn't make a whole lot of sense. Yeah.

Yeah. Turn off your brain. You have to. There

you go. There you go. All right, folks, we will

see you in the next one. Thank you so much for

listening. Thank you for joining us in this episode

of the Snark Industries podcast. To join the

conversation and further explore the Marvel Cinematic

Universe with us, head on over to snarkindustriespod

.com. The link will be in the show notes. But

with that, we will see you in the next adventure.

Zoop.