Captain Carter Were the First Avenger?

Hello and welcome fellow Marvel fans to the Snark

Industries podcast. I'm John. And I'm Remy. And

we invite you to join us as we work our way through

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if there's a Marvel character on screen, it's

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of Stark Industries. All right. Back to what

if. I'm excited. I don't know if you're excited,

but I am. I'll bet you are. I've been wondering

what if ever since the last time we wondered

what if. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As have I. We don't

even get a cold open for this one. No. Straight

to the credits. Season one, episode one. Yeah.

You know, season one, I did watch. So. Yeah,

yeah. So you've seen all this. I lost I lost

interest. Afterwards, because. If you recall.

I don't care for what if. Yeah, there were some

really. Yeah, I had not great episodes in season,

but I don't say it out right. And I don't like

what if. But if you just if in case you want

to. But for real, like, what if? Yeah, well,

we're going to find out what if. Are they going

to do that stupid salute? I hope they do. For

your sake. This animated version of the Red Skull

isn't nearly as top tier as the previous one

we watched. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it the ultimate

sacrifice if he survived? Mm -hmm. My dialogue

wasn't in the movie. Yeah. Well, what if? What

if it was? Bet you never thought of that. Right,

right. So everyone's just going to stay down

there instead? Yeah. She's like, I'm staying.

Everyone's like, all right. The assassin says,

me too. That's an option. Click, click, boom.

Was that Tommy Lee Jones? Damn. Ooh. They didn't

have to pay him. Mm -hmm, mm -hmm. Can you imagine

Stark having the super soldiers? Oh boy, that's

a recipe. That's a what if I'd watch. Oh, I was

going to say she just gets one. What are you

doing? Who is this guy supposed to be? I don't

know. Someone not being listened to. Right. It's

like, hey, that's my destiny. Yeah. Now I got

to go pick it up, trash can lids and getting

beat up again. Rude. The nerve. She handled it

a lot better than he did. Yeah, no screaming.

Nothing. And she was wearing stretchy clothes.

Yeah. So legit, is this supposed to be Tommy

Lee Jones character? No, that's not. That's not

a. Oh, well, maybe. I'm. He doesn't have the

same gravitas in either case. Not really. No,

he's he's got more of a nasally thing going on.

I have a girl. Agent Carter, what are you doing?

You're going to get a strongly awarded email

from somebody about that line. That guy's agent,

maybe. Oh, no, not that. That dude probably made

a lot of money having a nasally voice. i understood

that reference it stays here with the assisted

walking beams and where are they right now i

mean nice golden picture frames and like what's

what's the setup right now where are we what's

happening This is such an odd setting for this

conversation to be happening. The palace. Leave

them alone. They're just running. The palace.

Nondescript. They don't appreciate your critiques

of everything this episode. Well, that's kind

of why we're here. Filch. So what's the change

here that made them aware that Skull was here?

Yeah, they know before. Where's the snake? So

many changes in this universe. But what if it

was different? Oh, there it is. You're just being

overly critical. I am. Go have a Snickers. You're

not being yourself. Man, it is like, what, 545

in the morning? The cosmic ice cube. I'd assume

she can't get drunk either. I'm like, cocked

eye, bro. It's like, oh, I can kick some ass

with that. Convoy. There he is. Man, he's got

a big head. That thing just doesn't obey the

laws of physics at all. Yeah. Boop. I would hope

that was kind of the expectation when she charged

a vehicle running at her. Oh, man, into the fire.

Straight into the fire. I mean, they're Nazis.

I think we can get away with pretty much anything.

Yeah, yeah. I think the rule is what? Robots

and Nazis? Yeah, robots and Nazis always okay.

Do what you want to to them. Mm -hmm. Who's this

fool? He cracked his neck, so it's something

serious about to happen. I like the alliteration.

Wow. Then she cracked his neck. That's right.

Brave to touch it, even through just a pair of

gloves. Said the how it interacts with the world

changes every time it's touched. Yeah. Here,

it's sitting on a desk. In Norway, it was in

a wooden box. And the plane in Captain America,

it fell through into the ocean. Yeah. In Kohori's

episode, it corrupted an entire pond to be a

portal to another world. Who knows what's happening

here? Okay, so, but for the burning through the

plane, it had just been used. It was, like, hot.

Yeah, okay. And then some butt touching. Oh,

yeah, that's death by snoo snoo right there for

sure with the current forms. I was taking a sip

of coffee. I almost spat that all over my computer.

Spit tape. No. Vibranium motorcycle. Oh. A lot

more style than Steve, that's for sure. Well,

yeah. Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew. Everybody just

kind of ducks a little bit when there's a giant

explosion next to them. Just a little bit. Yeah.

Is he in a hydra stomper uniform? Oh, no, he's

in an early Iron Man. Oh, I guess that would

be a stomper. Yeah. Repurposed. Hey, I just.

Yep. Yep. You nailed it. So they couldn't just

let Carter have all the glory. They had to give

Kat something. No, she's she's she's taking it.

She's going far above and beyond the peak of

human conditioning. Sure, sure. Ripped a metal

door off its jail door off of its hinges. A couple

scenes ago. With ease. A day. Wow. Oh, man. Oh,

I thought those were trumpets playing over the

I was like, wow, those are some that's a key.

I'm always saying I've always said that. Bro.

Probably the most impressive part is that her

hair is still sticking to that style. Oh, yeah.

She's got super soldier strands. There you go.

That was a little brutal. Well, they're Nazis.

We've already went over. Oh, yeah, that's right.

That's right. That's right. Well. Nazi adjacent.

Yeah, well, they're Nazis. Yeah. Just because

they use two arms to salute. Yeah. He took the

whole tree. Boom. Got him. Not as climactic as

the vaporization, but still pretty cool. No.

Well, he doesn't have the. Yeah, right. Yeah.

Yeah. There it is. Damn it. Check that off your

bingo card, folks. I'm so upset. Remy gets upset

at the Hail Hydra salute. Ah, there it is. Steve

is so small, he takes one sip and he's like,

whoa. Like, listen, I'm messed up. Ooh. Now kiss.

Yeah, right. This magic moment. Okay. Creeper.

Now it's weird. Ah, we're back to the train.

Yep, yep, yep. Chugga chugga. Mm -mm. Ugh. Graphic.

Mm -hmm. Is he clotheslines himself on the wire

they set up? It's a pretty silly name. Now he's

OK. Bucky, come on, man. It is his destiny. Ooh,

onto the tracks like that? And those aren't super

soldiers? Nah. Nah, they got broken legs and

all kinds of fun stuff. Yeah. Objects in motion

stay in motion. Even in comic books. So Bucky

didn't go over the edge this time. Steve did.

Mm hmm. Wait. Wait for it. Just to make sure

he's good and buried. Yeah. Future. What if we'll

he'll show up with a metal arm? Like half fused

to his stomper. Hmm. I don't like his art. But

what if you did? What if indeed? Watch me. Well,

that's just not how the chain of command works.

Yeah. Well, I think she's changing things. Yeah.

What if it did? Oh. That was a cool shot. Man,

if only people shot just like 10 degrees lower.

That shield's not that big. I'm not rooting for

her to get shot, but man. Yeah. And if bad guys

could shoot, a lot of stories would be a lot

different. That's true. Imagine stormtroopers

with aim. Right. Oh, they have great aim. Those

are not shooting at the heroes. Yeah, yeah. Splat.

Oh, that guy got an extra splat. Yeah, he got

double tapped for some reason. Pull the lever,

crunk. Bad guy machines always look so cool.

Right? No. Oh. What did you use to explode that?

I see inside. I don't know. You need to be the

guy to push a button. Howard. There's the buttons

from out there. Oh. Didn't realize it was going

to be one of these kind of podcasts. I'd completely

forgotten about Cthulhu coming through here.

Well, that's what happens when you when you invite

a giant squid into your castle. Wow. Totally

forgot about the end of this episode. I could

do this all day. Yep. Oh, watch for debris. Jeez.

Yeah. Pardon our dust. That seems extreme to

make that calculation based off of a couple minutes.

Yeah, things that you don't even know how they

work. You're just in there. This is a portal

to another world. He's like, oh, I know how to

fix it. Yeah. There we go. Idiots, we all have

souls. You fools. Double entendre. He figured

it out. Bye. He couldn't understand the languages

and never seen that machine before, but he got

it. Of course. He's Stark. Yeah. See? Again,

couldn't give her the glory. Oh. Wait, how did

she get free? He showed up to help her. He got

hit. And then suddenly she's free. She's taking

the glory. You're so concerned about it. Oh,

there's some insides. Oh. Oh, my. Just one one

pressure point works against all those all those

tentacles. I don't think so. That's not the question.

The official story. What if it did? What if it

did? We have an easy out for every problem we

have. It's true. Bye. I feel like she didn't

need to keep pushing. She could have just held

it right at the precipice. No. Ultimate sacrifice.

All right. All right. Just making sure. What

if? Look at the way the stomper's laying. So

who's the guardian of Vormir now? Listen, you're

trying to branch too many things here. There's

a direct correlation, though. We have to know.

I don't have to know. All right. Fine. He didn't

say that, to be fair. He said the war ended.

He said it was over. That's not true. Yeah, well.

Temporally, you already did. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. Yeah, we know that that's a lie. We know.

Do the deep dive. Thank you for joining us in

this episode of the Snark Industries podcast.

To join the conversation and further explore

the Marvel Cinematic Universe with us, head on

over to snarkindustriespod .com. The link will

be in the show notes. But with that, we will

see you in the next adventure. planets you know

you know space you know

Hello and welcome, fellow Marvel fans, to the

Snark Industries podcast. I'm John. And I'm Remy.

And we invite you to join us as we work our way

through every Marvel TV show, movie, and crossover.

Meaning if there's a Marvel character on screen,

it's fair game. All categorized in the temporal

order of their setting. By the time we're done,

we'll have built a complete start -to -finish

timeline of the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe.

To accomplish this goal and to have a bit of

fun along the way, each episode will be split

into two parts, a watch party and a deep dive.

If you're hearing this, you found one of our

deep dives. This is where we slow things down

and take a more pragmatic, in -depth look at

a piece of Marvel media. We'll walk through the

full plot, explore connections to the wider MCU

and Marvel comics, highlight Easter eggs, unpack

lore, and of course, give you our own personal

thoughts and feelings. Although this episode

stands on its own, it is designed to complement

the watch party. So, if you haven't watched along

with us yet, we highly recommend starting there

first and coming back here for the full breakdown.

Most importantly, we want to thank each and every

one of you for joining us on this incredible

journey. We're not affiliated with Marvel in

any way, shape, or form. We're just fans who

are passionate about these stories and these

characters and wish to share them with everyone

in a new and exciting way. So, sit back, relax,

and enjoy this episode of Stark Industries. Hello,

ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Snark

Industries deep dive. We just got finished watching.

What if season one, episode one? What if Captain

Carter was the first Avenger? John, go ahead

and take it away. Yeah, so we have a pretty big

pivot point here that otherwise follows the same

story that we've just been through with Steve

Rogers. Leading up, we have everybody in the

same room. Steve is ready to receive the super

soldier serum and. The pivot point here is that

first, Peggy, or Captain Carter, as she'll later

become known as, decides to not go up into the

viewing room and stay down on the operating floor,

for lack of a better term, I guess. Can't along

with everybody else. Everybody decided to do

the same thing. And so they're all just standing

down there. And as they are going to start the

procedure, instead of waiting until it's over,

like happened in the first Avenger film. Kruger

decides to do his attack before and ends up in

this very similar vein, killing Dr. Erskine and

a few others. But this time, with how everything

kind of played out, Peggy was able to shoot and

kill him there. But there was a lot of destruction.

The machinery was broken. Erskine was already

dead. The thing of, well, we got to do this now

or we're going to lose all of this money and

time and effort we've put into this project.

And Steve was shot but not killed in the process.

So he was unable to enter the cocoon chamber

that they set up for him. So she did instead

and took the procedure and became the first hero,

super soldier, Captain Carter, as it were. And

we kind of fast forward and we see sort of the

SSR. We get Stark. We have a different guy that's

kind of the head of it versus the Tommy Lee Jones

character from the film. who very similarly,

though, doesn't want to use her in any sort of

capacity for the actual war effort. However,

even with all of his shortcomings and issues,

Steve was also allowed into the army now. So

he was there, too, even without the the upgrades.

And eventually, just like in the film, she decides

to and, you know, was her encouragement before.

But now it's encouraging herself, I suppose,

to get involved and does so and goes and gets

the. Tesseract from Arnim Zola early rather than

later. So Skull never has it, more so than just

a few moments, not enough time to do any sort

of research or development on it, which is a

stark difference from the film's plotline. So

they have it here with Stark having access to

the cube. He's able to create his first suit

of armor. Well, I guess his specifically only

suit of armor since it's Howard instead of Tony.

But he's able to, with that technology, build

the Hydra Stomper armor, which he gives to Steve.

So now Steve, powered by the Tesseract, has a

suit of Stark armor that he is using. They go,

they free the 107th from the imprisonment camp,

which they were still in here. Same as the film.

The Howling Commandos now being led by Captain

Carter and Steve in Hydra Stomper armor. go and

continue to do the same things that happened

in terms of taking out Hydra across the battlefield.

We get back to the train scene where we know

is where we lost Bucky in the film here. It's

a similar situation, though this is a trap. Why

exactly they were there to that train here anyway?

Because before, this is how they actually were

trying to get Zola. But they were there. It was

full of bombs. It blows up. Everyone is able

to jump off except for Steve, who was... presumably

killed in the explosion, only to find out sometime

later that he was captured. The Tesseract, which

was powering that hydrostomper armor, was then

taken by the Skull to, instead of making weapons,

to open a portal to summon an Eldritch Horror

to this plane. So that's a super big deviation

from what he was about for some reason that I

don't fully understand. But that's what they

decided to go with. What if? What if? Not realizing

that Steve was there, Carter and the other Howling

Commandos go to try to stop him from whatever

he's doing. This annihilation, of course, which

is still his overall arcing plan. So I guess

that is at least consistent. And when they get

there, realize that Steve is there and alive,

they free him. He gets back in the Stomper armor,

which even without the cube is somehow being

powered by something else now without any sort

of ways to convert that energy. I wouldn't imagine

it's a plug and play situation, but I guess.

A couple Duracell batteries will do just as good

in a pinch. So they all go in. This giant squid

monster comes out of this portal, immediately

killing Red Skull, who is the one that summoned

him. And everyone else gets to work to try to

put him back. Yeah, it is. It is. So we've got

Steve and Carter that are trying to push this

monster back into the portal while Stark is attempting

to close it. And ultimately... In true, I suppose,

Captain America style fashion, Captain Carter

in this case, she makes the ultimate sacrifice,

pushing this thing all the way back into the

portal, which then somehow just closes it, though

it couldn't close before. Best not to question

the official story, but that's what happened.

And then we get a kind of an ending scene where

the portal opens back up and we are now in the

sort of basement of the SHIELD headquarters from

the first Avengers movie. We see Hawkeye and

Fury there who are doing their experiments with

the Tesseract, just the same as in the Avengers

film, which we'll get to eventually. But it's

Hawkeye's first appearance in the in our watch

order so far. Yeah, that's true. So we get to

see we get to see Hawkeye for the first time.

So the portal opens while they're down there

in the shield basement research area. Carter

and a bunch of squid bits fall out of the hole.

And she's standing there like, you know, what

happened? What's going on? Why do you have an

eye patch? And she's, you know, similarly to

when Cap is brought off the ice in his story.

She's informed that 70 years have passed, the

war is over, and that's kind of where it sort

of wraps up in terms of what to do. But I have

a hunch, and it's not because I definitely know

for sure, but I'm just going to say in the sense

that I have a hunch that we're going to see Captain

Carter again a few more times. Just maybe. She's

definitely a... A studio favorite. But that's

where the sort of episode ends and kind of what

we do with this What If episode. So let's take

a moment here and just talk about how it ties

into the MCU. And we get to go back to our, my

favorite thing to say is, it's a What If episode.

It doesn't really. You know, this is meant to

be a standalone. It's not meant to be canon in

any way. It's just a fun little ride through

What If land. So, you know, of course, we see

a lot of the same tie -ins and themes. We see

Hydra, we see S .H .I .E .L .D., we see, you

know, Erskine and his super soldier serum. All

of these things kind of tie in indirectly in

terms of continuity of overarching stories. But

the actual happenings that happened in the episode

itself has no bearing whatsoever on any future

projects minus more what -if shenanigans, which

we'll see. I mean, as far as we know. As far

as we know. Yeah, but I mean, I think by design,

that's what what if is what's what if is all

about, you know, and I think the only perhaps

partial tie in that we have that could be into

MCU proper is when we see Captain Carter in the

multiverse of madness, which could maybe not

be this Captain Carter. It could be a different

one because the multiverse of madness is indeed

the multiverse. Yeah, right. But it is madness.

To say the least. So that's the only thing that

maybe would tie in with this, with it being the

same character. But I have a hunch. Highly doubt

it. And think that I don't think it's meant to

even be the same character outside of name and

likeness. So that being said, how about how about

some comic tie ins? Let's talk about that. Comic

tie ins. So this takes place on Earth 82111.

And as far as comics are concerned, interestingly

enough, Carter's introduction is not in comics

nor in film. Her introduction was actually via

Marvel Puzzle Quest. It was introduced in 2016

as a special character and people liked her.

So they brought her into what if. So pretty interesting

origin for her. I've seen a lot of characters

go from screen to comic and vice versa, of course.

But I think this. This is the only one I can

think of that's actually from Game 2 comic. So

that's kind of cool. That is very interesting.

Yeah. And then, of course, we've got the Hydra

Stomper, which is familiar. That was introduced

in 2007, which was by J. Michael Straczynski.

It's a miniseries called Bullet Points. And the

death of Erskine still happens, prevents Rogers

from becoming a super soldier. Instead, he volunteers

for something called... Project Iron Man, which

is kind of where we get the Hydra Stomper. So

kind of neat, kind of interesting tie in there.

And finally, we get the Captain Britain core

with the Sword of Might. So this isn't actually

Captain Carter specifically, but heavily based

on Captain Britain's aesthetic. So we've got

Brian Braddock as Captain Britain in the comics.

He carries a sword. He has a very similar look

to what Captain Carter looks like. So there's

a lot of aesthetic. A lot of aesthetics being

borrowed from Captain Britain. So kind of a neat

hybrid of the two. But as far as comics go, that's

all that I picked up. But beyond that, Easter

eggs. Honestly, there were Easter eggs all over

the place, as there always are in What If episodes.

We mentioned the Hydra Stomper. That's a huge

Easter egg. There wasn't anything, I think, worth

calling out in any... way, in my opinion, unless

you saw something specific. But everything was

so paralleled to Captain America that it was

kind of like, well, it's not really an Easter

egg. It's just part of the story. Yeah, I agree.

I didn't see anything that really stood out as

a plug in directly outside of what was, I think,

supposed to be there, which, as you say, is an

Easter egg. It's made that way and built that

way for a reason. So I agree. I didn't I didn't

catch anything. Yeah. So overall, not a ton.

Not a ton of specific Easter eggs, but still

a lot of fun to see all the parallels. But as

as far as the episode itself goes, how'd you

like it? So as what ifs go, which as we've discussed

several times and we'll continue to discuss several

more times as we go through these, I'm not a

huge fan. I don't think there's a lot of stakes.

This is one of the better ones. It's interesting.

I think Captain Carter is a fun character that

they made. And I said, I think that they particularly

have an affinity for her that shows more and

more as we go. But an interesting character,

nonetheless, not only in these portrayals, but

in the films. And obviously, she's good enough

to have her own TV show, not Captain Carter specifically,

but Agent Carter in that case, which we'll get

to soon, I think. Right. So it's actually we

have one project between this and that. Yeah.

So, you know, we got, you know, but it's one

of the better ones, I thought, as really with

all the Marvel animation that we've looked at,

minus the one from a few decades ago. So good.

Yeah. The, you know, choreography of the fights

and stuff like that. Top notch. Saw some pretty

cool things. I still, you know, and man, they

do it a little bit with Steve in the movies and

stuff. I feel like they really did it here because

the super soldier serum is supposed to be just

you are the pinnacle of human. Capacity. Right.

As good as a human can be. And, you know, and

then she's out here. Maybe a little bit better.

Jumping, jumping over 30 foot castle walls. You

know. Dropping her shoulder into cars and airplanes

and stuff. I'm just like, OK, I think that this

is maybe a little further than what the peak

of human capacity is. But I get it. It's for

it's for the rule of cool with some wow factor.

Right. You know, and so they and they do do it

some, I think, with Steve, too, though not not

nearly as egregious as what I noticed in this

episode. But, you know, obviously this is sort

of meant to be. I think a double entendre of

not only telling a cool story, but also having

a buildup of sort of a feminism thing. Right.

We see a lot of that where, you know, she's,

she's breaking barriers. We have a lot of misogyny

in the, you know, in the storyline and everything

else that she's got to go through. I don't know.

I think I heard the word dame read for her 30

times. Yeah. So, you know, that's clearly something

that they're going for. So to, to really punctuate.

Her, we'll call it badassery, I think was on

brand for what they were trying to do with, you

know, with the episode and with that theme. So

I do like it. You know, it says that it's not

my favorite, even in the what if scenarios that

still goes to the Western that we watched a few

episodes ago. That one really, really hit for

me. But then again, I really love Westerns. So

but as as as what if episodes go, this is a good

one. I did enjoy it. How about yourself? I. As

discussed again, like you said, I really enjoy

what ifs. I love the twist. I love the thought

process of what goes into a what if. I love exploring

these stories that I'm so familiar with, how

they can find parallels and how they can make

up new stuff. And they went a little far in this

one with the Eldritch God and things like that.

I thought that was a little bit of a stretch,

a little bit out there that I didn't love because

it brought in a level of fantastic that the story

just didn't need. But overall, I absolutely love

Captain Carter. I think she's a fantastic character.

I think she's a lot of fun and I'm looking forward

to seeing her in the rest of the what ifs that

I have not yet seen. So to finally get her into

the Marvel U, even though we've seen her a couple

of times already, it's exciting to me. I like

the origin story. I like the the way it was taken

care of. The death of Red Skull in this one just.

tickles me him calling this eldritch god and

getting crushed immediately just tickles you

that made me cackle yes indeed um but overall

i i thoroughly enjoyed it i thought it was a

lot of fun and i really really like hayley atwell

as captain carter i think she's a fantastic captain

carter and could not have been casted agreed

wholeheartedly across the board yeah yeah so

all in all great episode for what it was um you

know the eldritch thing was a little but yeah

Giant Tentacle Monsters is a little anime -ish.

It was a little weird. Should we start doing

that? That's new. I don't think we've done that

before. Official ratings? Yes. I like it. More

to come. This is a work in progress, folks. Indeed.

But yeah, that's all I got to say about it. You

have anything else you want to throw at it? I

look forward to the next one. Indeed. We'll catch

you folks in the next one, and thank you for

listening. Thank you for joining us in this episode

of the Snark Industries podcast. To join the

conversation and further explore the Marvel Cinematic

Universe with us, head on over to snarkindustriespod

.com. The link will be in the show notes. But

with that, we will see you in the next adventure.

Dames.